To John Fletcher Date: BIRMINGHAM, March 20, 1768. DEAR SIR, Yesterday Mr. Easterbrook informed me that you are sick of the conversation even of them who profess religion, 'that you find it quite unprofitable if not hurtful to converse with them three or four hours together, and are sometimes almost determined to shut yourself up as the less evil of the two.' I do not wonder at it at all, especially considering with whom you have chiefly conversed for some time past namely, the hearers of Mr. Madan and Mr. Romaine (perhaps I might add of Mr. Whitefield). The conversing with these I have rarely found to be profitable to my soul. Rather it has damped my desires, it has cooled my resolutions, and I have commonly left them with a dry, dissipated spirit.

And how can we expect it to be otherwise For do we not naturally catch their spirit with whom we converse And what spirit can we expect them to be of, considering the preaching they sit under Some happy exceptions I allow; but, in general, do men gather grapes of thorns Do they gather constant, universal self-denial, the patience of hope, the labour of love, inward and outward self-devotion, from the doctrine of Absolute Decrees, of Irresistible Grace, of Infallible Perseverance Do they gather these fruits from Antinomian doctrine or from any that borders upon it Do they gather them from that amorous way of praying to Christ or that way of preaching His righteousness I never found it so. On the contrary, I have found that even the precious doctrine of Salvation by Faith has need to be guarded with the utmost care, or those who hear it will slight both inward and outward holiness. I will go a step farther: I seldom find it profitable for me to converse with any who are not athirst for perfection and who are not big with earnest expectation of receiving it every moment. Now, you find none of these among those we are speaking of, but many, on the contrary, who are in various ways directly or indirectly opposing the whole work of God; that work, I mean, which God is carrying on throughout the kingdom by andres agraumatoi kai idiwtai. Acts iv. 13: 'unlearned and ignorant men.' In consequence of which His influence must in some measure be withdrawn from them. Again, you have for some time conversed a good deal with the genteel Methodists. Now, it matters not a straw what doctrine they hear, whether they frequent the Lock or West Street. They are (almost all) salt that has lost its savour, if ever they had any. They are throughly conformed to the maxims, the spirit, the fashions, and customs of the world. Certainly, then, Nunquam ad eos homines ibis quin minor homo redebis. A Kempis's Imitation, i. 20: 'One said, As oft as I have gone among men, I returned home less a man.'

But, were these or those of ever so excellent a spirit, you converse with them too long. 'Three or four hours'! One had need to be an angel, not a man, to converse four hours at once to any purpose. In the latter part of such a conversation we shall doubtless lose all the profit we had gained before. But have you not a remedy for all this in your hands In order to truly profitable conversation, may not you select persons clear both of Calvinism and Antinomianism, not fond of that luscious way of talking, but standing in awe of Him they love persons who are vigorously working out their salvation, persons athirst for full redemption, and every moment expecting if not already enjoying it Though, it is true, these will commonly be poor and mean; seldom possessed of either riches or learning, unless there be now and then a rara avis in terris, Juvenal's Satires, vi. 165: 'A bird rarely seen on earth.' a Miss March or Betty Johnson. See headings to letters of March 4, 1760, and Dec. 15, 1763. If you converse with these humbly and simply an hour at a time, with prayer before and prayer after, you will not complain of the unprofitableness of conversation or find any need of turning hermit.

As to the conference at Worcester on lay-preaching, do not you observe almost all the lay preachers (1) are connected with me (2) are maintainers of universal redemption Hinc illae lacrymae! Horace's Epistles, 1. xix. 41:'Hence these tears.' These gentlemen do not love me, and do love particular redemption. If these laymen were connected with them, or if they were Calvinists, all would be well. Therefore I should apprehend you will have two things to do: (1) urge the argument the strength of which I believe is in the second Appeal, and above all in the Letter to a Clergyman See Works, viii. 136-200; and letter of May 4, 1748.; (2) apply to the conscience, You do not love Mr. Wesley enough, you dove your opinions too much; otherwise this debate would never have arisen. For it is undeniable these quacks cure whom we cannot cure, they save sinners all over the nation. God is with them, God works by them, and has done so, for near these thirty years. Therefore the opposing them is neither better nor worse than fighting against God. I am Your ever affectionate brother.